mindlessoath
08-26-2008, 02:52 PM
Someone sticky this thread.
AIR INTAKE:
Do not modify the air intake. The ductwork and airflow was exhaustively researched by Nissan. TD emphasized that most air intakes are based on best fit & bling rather than real gains.
What this means is you could replace the stock paper filter for something with greater airflow like K&N, but not a cone filter that replaces the box/ductwork.
BREAK-IN PERIOD:
As already stated (beaten to death), the engine is already broken in. The car should be driven gingerly for the 1st 100 miles; I 'personally' think the car should be driven with some control up to 300 miles to allow the DSG cogs and brakes to mate and seat properly, but TD said it is ready for flogging after 100 miles; I would still give slightly more time though. TD stated that the engine in my car sounded the best of the GT-Rs he has driven so far. He says they are told to listen to the engine during break-in period, not to exceed 80 mph, with lots of rpm variation (the key). The transmission is going to make noises at low rpm / low speed and should be seen as normal operating conditions; he said if you hear those noises at highway speeds and higher rpms, then that is more indicative of a probelm, not low speed. He also recommends "winding the engine to redline periodically [every couple weeks] (haha, which I doubt anybody will have a problem with) to maximize cylinder pressures and push the rings out".
WARRANTY:
(1) Do not drive with VDC off, unless you are driving in snow and driving 10 -15 miles per hour to get out of a hole. This history is looked at and apparently is a pretty serious trigger. Some may be able to get away with it, depending on your dealer and Master Tech, but if the warranty is REALLY important to you....
(2) POS service visits should be vigorously followed; they are free anyways. The more documentation of services, whether dealer or non-dealer is critical to coverage during the warranty period.
PAINT:
MC's issue and others should be brought to the attention of the dealer as soon as they are detected. If the dealer does not address the claim, follow the chain of command, and move up the ladder to Regional NNA customer service representative. These issues seem manufacturer-based and should be addressed positively and promptly.
LAUNCH CONTROL:
(Why did they create LC then? seems a contradiction.)
Nissan was going for numbers on this one. This was a mark set for magazines so that comparator numbers would be inferior. The power of the engines did not vary; it was more a matter of launch parameters, tire pressure and temperature, and driver technique:
(a) The 0-60 mph 3.2 second run is accomplished with LC in ideal conditions.
(b) The 0-60 3.4 - 3.5 second run is done in all R mode in ideal conditions.
There is another trick using the left brake, allowing the clutch time to engage within parameters (not brake boosting) that I will be learning on Tuesday at the track (FIR).
**** Annother source said that the R35 is good for 200 launches using launch control. alot of dealers will say 100 uses. regardless the clutches will wear out cause thats what they do. From the story its said the demo cars shown to the press junked out around 200 launches so dealers are being very stearn about how many launches are done. ****
BRAKES:
A little background from "Las Vegas Speedway":
Nissan issued a directive that all 22 cars were to be flogged mercilessly around the track as a part of Nissan R&D. They wanted to see if any of the 8 instructors could break a vehicle.
> 120 miles per day
> 600 miles per training period
'balls to the wall', all out at the limit driving --> these cars experienced maximum 'beat down' at the autox, on the skidpad, ...
rpm range at the track typically ranged 4500 - 7000 rpm throughout the entire day of driving
None broke.
The brake pads were developed for the street, a "semi-metallic pad" (why there is brake noise on the street) and are "really not an aggressive pad at all", but this is from the standpoint of optimizing the pads for the track. There was no fade the entire day using these pads in 110 F heat in Las Vegas. They are very adequate for the street, but could be improved for the track. Now this is all relative, because if you lock up the brakes on the street, YOU WILL be rear-ended. These brakes are VERY good, they can just be improved with a more aggressive pad on the circuit. One thing the TD mentioned was that the rotors cross-drilled holes need to be poked out periodically to get rid of the pad wearing into the rotor holes when tracking the car.
the brake pads can be changed without changing the rotors
the rotors should easily last > 30,000 in normal street use
NOTES:
do not set the emergency brake after hard brake use / high temperatures; (it does something bad that I can't remember right now [rotor issues]). "Just set it in park and leave it alone"
Brake Pad Recommendations for track use:
Porterfield Brake pads, C4 compound (out of Huntington Beach, CA. he thinks)
the pads wear out far before the rotors will
the "pads don't tear up the rotors as bad / quickly as OEM"
**** Let me butt in here.. i would also like to recomend Porterfield brake pads, i have used them on my cars also and loved them ****
WHAT IS THE SPEC V GOING TO LOOK LIKE (according to TD)?
(By the way, I was shocked he let this information go, but here it is.)
300 pounds lighter, lots of carbon fiber
a gain of 70 - 80 HP
very high performance ceramic brakes all-around, better unsprung weight advantage
improved aerodynamics
no back seat, no cage
likely additional chassis bracing
Added Caveat: The Bose system is a beautiful thing but "very heavy"; "speakers 40 - 50 lbs alone"; "all hardware probably 80 lbs. The Polyphonic is a lot lighter.
TIRES & WHEELS:
Background:
The OEM wheel / tire (with Bridgestones) combo is $1700.00 to replace, each.....ouch and weigh upwards of 67 pounds each (wheel and tire).
I was looking at getting a different wheel / tire combination for the street to get better longevity; TD said:
"The VDC will be slightly more intrusive the harder tire you go with; i.e. softer tire, less intrusive because the computer doesn't sense as much slide as on a harder tire".
Apparently, the GT-R has the same lug pattern as the Nissan 350Z, but with a greater offset. Two other sets of wheels have been tried from the following website:
http://www.mackinindustries.com/md/rays/forgedmonoblock.html
The Time Attack Series: TE37 and CE28 were both used. A forged monoblock wheel should be used because tires can have a tendency to spin on the wheel. Additionally, a weaker wheel has the potential to succumb to torsional forces with extreme torque conditions on the track.
The Good News:
He remembers them fitting 18s, but 19s are probably a safer bet. These are light weight wheels. A "weight decrease approaching 20 pounds per wheel / tire combination will create a huge gain in unsprung weight"; i.e. "much faster, stops faster"
What are good / ideal hot tire pressures at the track?
29 psi on the Bridgestones; that was all they were able to go to on the track in LV. TD stated he would probably try upwards of 32 psi hot if given the chance under different conditions.
NOTES: "slip angles don't increase much because of the stiffness of the run-flats".
Other wheel / tire combinations pending on Tuesday. He is going to try and get what they used at Buttonwillow.
Why does the car hesitate from a stand-still launch without LC?
"this is a normal operation failsafe to protect the clutches".
Addendum with regard to 19 inch Wheel / Tire modification and Aerodynamics:This was actually a question TD had for the Nissan engineer at LV; the question was regards the above addendum.
With regard to the aerodynamics --> "do not mess with the aerodynamics" (haha) Ok, so that was pretty clear.
OEM has 160 lbs downforce distributedly exactly evenly between the middle front and the middle rear.
"By losing the Deuce" (20 inch wheels) you get the following:
(1) "you lose ground clearance"
(2) "you gain downforce and the car handles better, accelerates faster, brakes harder"
WHAT ARE THE LIMITATIONS OF THE ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION?
The engine can apparently take 650 HP conservatively and 700 HP with less of a safety buffer with no alteration to the bottom end.
The transmission, specifically clutches are limited to ~ 600 HP without some strengthening when looking at the base GT-R weight of 3800 pounds.
WHAT HAPPENS IF THE TRANSMISSION GETS TOO HOT?
The car goes into limp mode and will limit to 3000 rpms until the transmission has cooled down; this can be monitored
WHAT MILEAGE DID THE CARS AT THE LV TRACK GET THROUGHOUT THE WEEK GOING FLAT OUT?
4.1 mpg
GT-R modification
This has been a topic of great concern for many members of this community ( X4). Passionate people who 'cannot leave well enough alone'. I include myself in this group.
Those of you who have already taken delivery know that if you roll in first gear to 5 mph and then go full throttle in R mode (both suspension and DSG), you are going to out-accelerate ANY car on the road; it's almost too easy. AWD and the spike boost to 13 psi at 5000 rpm to redline and a quickshift to 2nd is probably the quickest you will ever go to 60 or 80 mph (outside of a bike). Once those turbos reach full boost (as I said right around 5000 rpms) its all over. And you don't even have to be going straight either, just point it in the right direction between the curb on the right side and the curb on the left side of the road and the AWD will pull you. Just watch the torque split if you don't believe me.
But,... we want more... or need more. I have been working some on-ramps to prepare for next week. My goal is to just do a few solid 0 - 60 pulls to learn the sounds the engine makes as it approaches redline quickly so I don't have to look at the gauges all the time (the roadway is always empty). The problem is that this car does a mid 11, 1/4 mile, and by the time I am ready to merge, the car has already hit 100, so I blip 5th, and settle into 65 mph. So the question is....how fast does it need to be on the street? If you add another 60 - 70 HP, be prepared for scary. I'm just being honest.
Moving to a light-weight 19 inch wheel (Volk) will drop potentially 20 pounds from each corner (and this is unsprung weight, no less), generate significantly more downforce front and rear because of the inherent drop to a 19 inch wheel. The Nissan engineers didn't even want a 20 inch deuce, it was all about the bling, look and stance. A 19 inch wheel will make this car handle MUCH better. It will be faster and brake harder. Add another 70 HP with a really pretty TQ curve (kudos to Cobb) and you better be ready for a 'violent' street car. You will be driving around a 10 second car on the street. And that is not on slicks or DRs, it's on crappy run-flat street tires.
To legally drive that kind of time at a dragstrip you need a 6 point roll cage, transmission scatter shield, 5 point harness, fire jacket, driveshaft loop, etc.
Nissan has raised the bar in many ways, and it was a hard road. Nissan had to agree to many government restrictions and guidelines in the production of this vehicle. Japan has limited HP ratings to what 280 HP..for how long? And now they are producing a track car for mass consumption making 480 HP with very little drivetrain loss. Are they worried? yes. You can easily modify this car and arrive at the performance as stated above. Just my 2 cents, but I think some track school should be required, if not already qualified.
This is VERY preliminary, but TD is looking at the possibility of putting together something of a GT-R Performance Driving Academy at a racing school to be determined, probably Bondurant. 15 drivers per day (to keep the track clean), #5 - 20 minute sessions, $$ to be determined, but $300 - $500 probable. Anybody interested? Serious inquiries only.
AIR INTAKE:
Do not modify the air intake. The ductwork and airflow was exhaustively researched by Nissan. TD emphasized that most air intakes are based on best fit & bling rather than real gains.
What this means is you could replace the stock paper filter for something with greater airflow like K&N, but not a cone filter that replaces the box/ductwork.
BREAK-IN PERIOD:
As already stated (beaten to death), the engine is already broken in. The car should be driven gingerly for the 1st 100 miles; I 'personally' think the car should be driven with some control up to 300 miles to allow the DSG cogs and brakes to mate and seat properly, but TD said it is ready for flogging after 100 miles; I would still give slightly more time though. TD stated that the engine in my car sounded the best of the GT-Rs he has driven so far. He says they are told to listen to the engine during break-in period, not to exceed 80 mph, with lots of rpm variation (the key). The transmission is going to make noises at low rpm / low speed and should be seen as normal operating conditions; he said if you hear those noises at highway speeds and higher rpms, then that is more indicative of a probelm, not low speed. He also recommends "winding the engine to redline periodically [every couple weeks] (haha, which I doubt anybody will have a problem with) to maximize cylinder pressures and push the rings out".
WARRANTY:
(1) Do not drive with VDC off, unless you are driving in snow and driving 10 -15 miles per hour to get out of a hole. This history is looked at and apparently is a pretty serious trigger. Some may be able to get away with it, depending on your dealer and Master Tech, but if the warranty is REALLY important to you....
(2) POS service visits should be vigorously followed; they are free anyways. The more documentation of services, whether dealer or non-dealer is critical to coverage during the warranty period.
PAINT:
MC's issue and others should be brought to the attention of the dealer as soon as they are detected. If the dealer does not address the claim, follow the chain of command, and move up the ladder to Regional NNA customer service representative. These issues seem manufacturer-based and should be addressed positively and promptly.
LAUNCH CONTROL:
(Why did they create LC then? seems a contradiction.)
Nissan was going for numbers on this one. This was a mark set for magazines so that comparator numbers would be inferior. The power of the engines did not vary; it was more a matter of launch parameters, tire pressure and temperature, and driver technique:
(a) The 0-60 mph 3.2 second run is accomplished with LC in ideal conditions.
(b) The 0-60 3.4 - 3.5 second run is done in all R mode in ideal conditions.
There is another trick using the left brake, allowing the clutch time to engage within parameters (not brake boosting) that I will be learning on Tuesday at the track (FIR).
**** Annother source said that the R35 is good for 200 launches using launch control. alot of dealers will say 100 uses. regardless the clutches will wear out cause thats what they do. From the story its said the demo cars shown to the press junked out around 200 launches so dealers are being very stearn about how many launches are done. ****
BRAKES:
A little background from "Las Vegas Speedway":
Nissan issued a directive that all 22 cars were to be flogged mercilessly around the track as a part of Nissan R&D. They wanted to see if any of the 8 instructors could break a vehicle.
> 120 miles per day
> 600 miles per training period
'balls to the wall', all out at the limit driving --> these cars experienced maximum 'beat down' at the autox, on the skidpad, ...
rpm range at the track typically ranged 4500 - 7000 rpm throughout the entire day of driving
None broke.
The brake pads were developed for the street, a "semi-metallic pad" (why there is brake noise on the street) and are "really not an aggressive pad at all", but this is from the standpoint of optimizing the pads for the track. There was no fade the entire day using these pads in 110 F heat in Las Vegas. They are very adequate for the street, but could be improved for the track. Now this is all relative, because if you lock up the brakes on the street, YOU WILL be rear-ended. These brakes are VERY good, they can just be improved with a more aggressive pad on the circuit. One thing the TD mentioned was that the rotors cross-drilled holes need to be poked out periodically to get rid of the pad wearing into the rotor holes when tracking the car.
the brake pads can be changed without changing the rotors
the rotors should easily last > 30,000 in normal street use
NOTES:
do not set the emergency brake after hard brake use / high temperatures; (it does something bad that I can't remember right now [rotor issues]). "Just set it in park and leave it alone"
Brake Pad Recommendations for track use:
Porterfield Brake pads, C4 compound (out of Huntington Beach, CA. he thinks)
the pads wear out far before the rotors will
the "pads don't tear up the rotors as bad / quickly as OEM"
**** Let me butt in here.. i would also like to recomend Porterfield brake pads, i have used them on my cars also and loved them ****
WHAT IS THE SPEC V GOING TO LOOK LIKE (according to TD)?
(By the way, I was shocked he let this information go, but here it is.)
300 pounds lighter, lots of carbon fiber
a gain of 70 - 80 HP
very high performance ceramic brakes all-around, better unsprung weight advantage
improved aerodynamics
no back seat, no cage
likely additional chassis bracing
Added Caveat: The Bose system is a beautiful thing but "very heavy"; "speakers 40 - 50 lbs alone"; "all hardware probably 80 lbs. The Polyphonic is a lot lighter.
TIRES & WHEELS:
Background:
The OEM wheel / tire (with Bridgestones) combo is $1700.00 to replace, each.....ouch and weigh upwards of 67 pounds each (wheel and tire).
I was looking at getting a different wheel / tire combination for the street to get better longevity; TD said:
"The VDC will be slightly more intrusive the harder tire you go with; i.e. softer tire, less intrusive because the computer doesn't sense as much slide as on a harder tire".
Apparently, the GT-R has the same lug pattern as the Nissan 350Z, but with a greater offset. Two other sets of wheels have been tried from the following website:
http://www.mackinindustries.com/md/rays/forgedmonoblock.html
The Time Attack Series: TE37 and CE28 were both used. A forged monoblock wheel should be used because tires can have a tendency to spin on the wheel. Additionally, a weaker wheel has the potential to succumb to torsional forces with extreme torque conditions on the track.
The Good News:
He remembers them fitting 18s, but 19s are probably a safer bet. These are light weight wheels. A "weight decrease approaching 20 pounds per wheel / tire combination will create a huge gain in unsprung weight"; i.e. "much faster, stops faster"
What are good / ideal hot tire pressures at the track?
29 psi on the Bridgestones; that was all they were able to go to on the track in LV. TD stated he would probably try upwards of 32 psi hot if given the chance under different conditions.
NOTES: "slip angles don't increase much because of the stiffness of the run-flats".
Other wheel / tire combinations pending on Tuesday. He is going to try and get what they used at Buttonwillow.
Why does the car hesitate from a stand-still launch without LC?
"this is a normal operation failsafe to protect the clutches".
Addendum with regard to 19 inch Wheel / Tire modification and Aerodynamics:This was actually a question TD had for the Nissan engineer at LV; the question was regards the above addendum.
With regard to the aerodynamics --> "do not mess with the aerodynamics" (haha) Ok, so that was pretty clear.
OEM has 160 lbs downforce distributedly exactly evenly between the middle front and the middle rear.
"By losing the Deuce" (20 inch wheels) you get the following:
(1) "you lose ground clearance"
(2) "you gain downforce and the car handles better, accelerates faster, brakes harder"
WHAT ARE THE LIMITATIONS OF THE ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION?
The engine can apparently take 650 HP conservatively and 700 HP with less of a safety buffer with no alteration to the bottom end.
The transmission, specifically clutches are limited to ~ 600 HP without some strengthening when looking at the base GT-R weight of 3800 pounds.
WHAT HAPPENS IF THE TRANSMISSION GETS TOO HOT?
The car goes into limp mode and will limit to 3000 rpms until the transmission has cooled down; this can be monitored
WHAT MILEAGE DID THE CARS AT THE LV TRACK GET THROUGHOUT THE WEEK GOING FLAT OUT?
4.1 mpg
GT-R modification
This has been a topic of great concern for many members of this community ( X4). Passionate people who 'cannot leave well enough alone'. I include myself in this group.
Those of you who have already taken delivery know that if you roll in first gear to 5 mph and then go full throttle in R mode (both suspension and DSG), you are going to out-accelerate ANY car on the road; it's almost too easy. AWD and the spike boost to 13 psi at 5000 rpm to redline and a quickshift to 2nd is probably the quickest you will ever go to 60 or 80 mph (outside of a bike). Once those turbos reach full boost (as I said right around 5000 rpms) its all over. And you don't even have to be going straight either, just point it in the right direction between the curb on the right side and the curb on the left side of the road and the AWD will pull you. Just watch the torque split if you don't believe me.
But,... we want more... or need more. I have been working some on-ramps to prepare for next week. My goal is to just do a few solid 0 - 60 pulls to learn the sounds the engine makes as it approaches redline quickly so I don't have to look at the gauges all the time (the roadway is always empty). The problem is that this car does a mid 11, 1/4 mile, and by the time I am ready to merge, the car has already hit 100, so I blip 5th, and settle into 65 mph. So the question is....how fast does it need to be on the street? If you add another 60 - 70 HP, be prepared for scary. I'm just being honest.
Moving to a light-weight 19 inch wheel (Volk) will drop potentially 20 pounds from each corner (and this is unsprung weight, no less), generate significantly more downforce front and rear because of the inherent drop to a 19 inch wheel. The Nissan engineers didn't even want a 20 inch deuce, it was all about the bling, look and stance. A 19 inch wheel will make this car handle MUCH better. It will be faster and brake harder. Add another 70 HP with a really pretty TQ curve (kudos to Cobb) and you better be ready for a 'violent' street car. You will be driving around a 10 second car on the street. And that is not on slicks or DRs, it's on crappy run-flat street tires.
To legally drive that kind of time at a dragstrip you need a 6 point roll cage, transmission scatter shield, 5 point harness, fire jacket, driveshaft loop, etc.
Nissan has raised the bar in many ways, and it was a hard road. Nissan had to agree to many government restrictions and guidelines in the production of this vehicle. Japan has limited HP ratings to what 280 HP..for how long? And now they are producing a track car for mass consumption making 480 HP with very little drivetrain loss. Are they worried? yes. You can easily modify this car and arrive at the performance as stated above. Just my 2 cents, but I think some track school should be required, if not already qualified.
This is VERY preliminary, but TD is looking at the possibility of putting together something of a GT-R Performance Driving Academy at a racing school to be determined, probably Bondurant. 15 drivers per day (to keep the track clean), #5 - 20 minute sessions, $$ to be determined, but $300 - $500 probable. Anybody interested? Serious inquiries only.